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John Hagee

Last post 10-23-2008 11:56 AM by Doc. 42 replies.
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  • 05-24-2008 9:36 PM In reply to

    • Doc
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    Obama is NOT the Anti-Christ

    Doc
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  • 05-25-2008 5:35 AM In reply to

    • Doc
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    In Defense of Hagee

    Doc:
     
    you can watch his response here
     
     
    you can view more at www.cufi.org
     
     
    Doc
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  • 05-25-2008 6:02 AM In reply to

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    The Great Tribulation

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  • 05-25-2008 6:06 AM In reply to

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    10 signs that we are the Generation to see the Second Coming of Jesus Christ

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  • 05-25-2008 6:07 AM In reply to

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    Will there be a Rapture?

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  • 05-26-2008 7:25 PM In reply to

    Re: Will there be a Rapture? Farewell....



    Farewell to the Rapture

    (N.T. Wright, Bible Review, August 2001.)

    Little did Paul know how his colorful metaphors for Jesus’ second coming would be misunderstood two millennia later.

    The American obsession with the second coming of Jesus — especially with distorted interpretations of it — continues unabated.  Seen from my side of the Atlantic, the phenomenal success of the Left Behind books appears puzzling, even bizarre[1].  Few in the U.K. hold the belief on which the popular series of novels is based: that there will be a literal “rapture” in which believers will be snatched up to heaven, leaving empty cars crashing on freeways and kids coming home from school only to find that their parents have been taken to be with Jesus while they have been “left behind.”  This pseudo-theological version of Home Alone has reportedly frightened many children into some kind of (distorted) faith.

    This dramatic end-time scenario is based (wrongly, as we shall see) on Paul’s First Letter to the Thessalonians, where he writes: “For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout of command, with the voice of an archangel and the trumpet of God.  The dead in Christ will rise first; then we, who are left alive, will be snatched up with them on clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so we shall always be with the Lord” (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17).

    What on earth (or in heaven) did Paul mean?

    It is Paul who should be credited with creating this scenario.  Jesus himself, as I have argued in various books, never predicted such an event[2].  The gospel passages about “the Son of Man coming on the clouds” (Mark 13:26, 14:62, for example) are about Jesus’ vindication, his “coming” to heaven from earth.  The parables about a returning king or master (for example, Luke 19:11-27) were originally about God returning to Jerusalem, not about Jesus returning to earth.  This, Jesus seemed to believe, was an event within space-time history, not one that would end it forever.

    The Ascension of Jesus and the Second Coming are nevertheless vital Christian doctrines[3], and I don’t deny that I believe some future event will result in the personal presence of Jesus within God’s new creation.  This is taught throughout the New Testament outside the Gospels.  But this event won’t in any way resemble the Left Behind account.  Understanding what will happen requires a far more sophisticated cosmology than the one in which “heaven” is somewhere up there in our universe, rather than in a different dimension, a different space-time, altogether.

    The New Testament, building on ancient biblical prophecy, envisages that the creator God will remake heaven and earth entirely, affirming the goodness of the old Creation but overcoming its mortality and corruptibility (e.g., Romans 8:18-27; Revelation 21:1; Isaiah 65:17, 66:22).  When that happens, Jesus will appear within the resulting new world (e.g., Colossians 3:4; 1 John 3:2).

    Paul’s description of Jesus’ reappearance in 1 Thessalonians 4 is a brightly colored version of what he says in two other passages, 1 Corinthians 15:51-54 and Philippians 3:20-21: At Jesus’ “coming” or “appearing,” those who are still alive will be “changed” or “transformed” so that their mortal bodies will become incorruptible, deathless.  This is all that Paul intends to say in Thessalonians, but here he borrows imagery—from biblical and political sources—to enhance his message.  Little did he know how his rich metaphors would be misunderstood two millennia later.

    First, Paul echoes the story of Moses coming down the mountain with the Torah.  The trumpet sounds, a loud voice is heard, and after a long wait Moses comes to see what’s been going on in his absence.

    Second, he echoes Daniel 7, in which “the people of the saints of the Most High” (that is, the “one like a son of man”) are vindicated over their pagan enemy by being raised up to sit with God in glory.  This metaphor, applied to Jesus in the Gospels, is now applied to Christians who are suffering persecution.

    Third, Paul conjures up images of an emperor visiting a colony or province.  The citizens go out to meet him in open country and then escort him into the city.  Paul’s image of the people “meeting the Lord in the air” should be read with the assumption that the people will immediately turn around and lead the Lord back to the newly remade world.

    Paul’s mixed metaphors of trumpets blowing and the living being snatched into heaven to meet the Lord are not to be understood as literal truth, as the Left Behind series suggests, but as a vivid and biblically allusive description of the great transformation of the present world of which he speaks elsewhere.

    Paul’s misunderstood metaphors present a challenge for us: How can we reuse biblical imagery, including Paul’s, so as to clarify the truth, not distort it?  And how can we do so, as he did, in such a way as to subvert the political imagery of the dominant and dehumanizing empires of our world?  We might begin by asking, What view of the world is sustained, even legitimized, by the Left Behind ideology?  How might it be confronted and subverted by genuinely biblical thinking?  For a start, is not the Left Behind mentality in thrall to a dualistic view of reality that allows people to pollute God’s world on the grounds that it’s all going to be destroyed soon?  Wouldn’t this be overturned if we recaptured Paul’s wholistic vision of God’s whole creation?
                   
              



    [1] Tim F. Lahaye and Jerry B. Jenkins, Left Behind (Cambridge, UK: Tyndale House Publishing, 1996).  Eight other titles have followed, all runaway bestsellers.

    [2] See my Jesus and the Victory of God (Philadelphia: Fortress, 1996); the discussions in Jesus and the Restoration of Israel: A Critical Assessment of N.T. Wright’s Jesus and the Victory of God, ed. Carey C. Newman (Downer’s Grove, IL: InterVarsity Press, 1999); and Marcus J. Borg and N.T. Wright, The Meaning of Jesus: Two Visions (San Francisco: HarperSanFrancisco, 1999), chapters 13 and 14.

    [3] Douglas Farrow, Ascension and Ecclesia: On the Significance of the Doctrine of the Ascension for Ecclesiology and Christian Cosmology (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1999).




    http://www.ntwrightpage.com/Wright_BR_Farewell_Rapture.htm
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  • 05-27-2008 7:08 AM In reply to

    • Doc
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    Re: Will there be a Rapture?

    I am sorry you believe that, I hope you are living right and living for Jesus today, I hope you don't also believe that you are "once saved always saved" and now have a license to sin...
     
    I pray that you don't  be left behind to find out your kids gone, taken away safely by Jesus with you left behind to suffer under the anti-Christ's rule. I pray that you would understand the word instead of unbelievers' commentary... I am willing to reason with you...
     
    note that when Jesus comes the second time (Second Coming) All eyes will see him (from earth)
    but when He comes for the rapture, only the believers will see Him.
     
    The old Jewish wedding feast is another type of the rapture... I don't have time to do your homework but do a search and look for "Jewish Wedding - a type of the Rapture of the church"...
     
    Gotta get to work now, there are souls to be saved.... we have no time to fuss...
    love Doc
     
    Doc
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  • 05-27-2008 7:13 AM In reply to

    • Doc
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    Has anyone seen the movie, "Pilgrims Progress"

    or read Paul Bunyon's book?   the movie i hear is true to the original book, full of parables and allagories. in fact C.S. Lewis learned how to write from Bunyon.
     
    anyway this movie is a must see...
    Doc
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  • 05-27-2008 6:59 PM In reply to

    • AmeriKan
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    Re: Has anyone seen the movie, "Pilgrims Progress"

    Thanks, Doc, for doing your homework.
     
    On the N.T. Wright post....he is a controversial figur to say the least.  In 2008, Wright attracted
    controversy by stating that, "...secular utopianism is based on a belief that we have the right to kill
    unborn children and surplus (suffering) old people and to play games with the humanity of those
    in between."  (BBC, March 31, 2008)    When challenged, Wright's follow up was "he stood by his
    form of words." 
    Wright falls into the category of, "Ever learning and never reaching the knowledge of the truth."

    Blessings,
    AmeriKan
    God is FAITHFUL!!!!!
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  • 05-27-2008 8:16 PM In reply to

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    In Defense of John Hagee

    As a supporter of Christians United for Israel, I want to provide you with an opportunity to show your support for our founder and chairman, Pastor John Hagee. 

    As I'm sure you've seen, Pastor Hagee has come under an angry attack by many in the media.  They have ignored his fifty years of ministry.  They have overlooked his lifetime of loving-kindness and charity.  And they have horribly twisted his decades of zealous support for Israel and the Jewish people. 

    And make no mistake about it, many who attack Pastor Hagee seek not only to hurt him, but to silence all Christian friends of Israel.

    We need to give a bold and unified response!  

    Now is the time when all of us who appreciate Pastor Hagee's leadership and heart should step forward to help set the record straight. 

    First, I recommend that you read the attached statements from Pastor Hagee and Rabbi Scheinberg explaining Pastor Hagee's views on the latest  controversy.  I encourage you to forward these statements to your friends, families, and colleagues so they too can know the truth. 

    Secondly, we ask that you keep Pastor Hagee and his family in your prayers during this difficult time.  If you are moved to share your prayers and thoughts with Pastor Hagee please email them to info@cufi.org.

    Finally, the best way we can respond to these attacks is to turn out in record numbers for our Washington, DC summit this July 21-23.  If you have not already registered, please do so today. IT’S IMPORTANT!   If you have already registered, please ask a relative or friend to join you.   You can click here for more information.

    When we are together in July, we can give this good man and his wife the warm welcome and display of respect that they so richly deserve.  More importantly, we can stand together in support of Israel and the Jewish people as never before.

    Let's demonstrate to all the critics that their attacks will only strengthen our determination to do what is right. 

    David Brog
    Executive Director
    Christians United for Israel

    Pastor Hagee and Rabbi Scheinberg Respond to Recent Controversies
    Pastor Hagee's Statement

    The past 24 hours have been extremely disappointing ones to me.  My disappointment has nothing to do with the fact that I parted company with John McCain this was best for both of us and for the country.   It is time the candidates and the media turn their attention back to the pressing issues of our day and stop focusing on what I did or did not say decades ago.

    But what has been disappointing has been to see my life’s work the great passion of my life mischaracterized and attacked.  I have dedicated my life to combating anti-Semitism and supporting the State of Israel.  In taking a stand for Israel I have received death threats from anti-Semites and neo-***, and I’ve had the windows of my car blown out beneath the windows of the rooms in which my children slept.  To hear people who know nothing about me or my life’s work claim that I somehow excuse the Holocaust is simply heartbreaking.

    Let me be clear -- to assert that I in any way condone the Holocaust or that monster Adolf Hitler is the worst of lies.  I have always condemned the horrors of the Holocaust in the strongest of terms.  But even more importantly, my abhorrence of the Holocaust and anti-Semitism has never stopped with mere words.

    I have devoted most of my adult life to ensuring that there will never be a second Holocaust.  I have worked tirelessly to eliminate the sin of anti-Semitism from the Christian world and to ensure the survival of the State of Israel. 

    I have traveled the country teaching Christians to love the Jewish people and stand with Israel.  Our ministry has given over $30 million for humanitarian causes in Israel.   I founded Christians United for Israel to bring together all pro-Israel Christians into a movement that can support Israel during these very challenging times.

    The fact is that all people of faith have had to wrestle with the question of why a sovereign God would allow evil in the world.  After Auschwitz, this question became more urgent than ever.

    Many people simply could not explain how a loving God would permit such horrors.  After the Holocaust, they abandoned their faith in a sovereign God who intervenes here on earth.  While I disagree with this conclusion, I would never denigrate those who arrived at such a conclusion.

    But I and many millions of Christians and Jews came to a different conclusion.  We maintained our faith in a sovereign God who allows both the good and the evil that is in the world.  We therefore search the scriptures for an explanation for that evil.  We believe that the words of the Hebrew prophets such as Jeremiah may help us understand the mind of God.  But our search for an explanation for evil must never be confused with an effort to excuse it.

    What is more important than how we answer the question of where was God during the Holocaust is what we as men and women do here on earth to make sure that there will never be another Holocaust.  We must give meaning to the words “Never Again” through our actions.  It is to this effort this effort to fight anti-Semitism and to support Israel that I now return.  Thank you.

    Rabbi Scheinberg's Statement
    I have known Pastor John Hagee for close to 30 years. Pastor Hagee is a man of G-d, a visionary leader, a person of courage and integrity, a lover of people of all faiths, an embodiment of truth, justice and kindness.

    I met him in 1981, when he stood almost alone in the defense of Israel, after Israel destroyed Iraq’s nuclear reactor in 1981. At that time, while the majority of world leaders criticized Israel, Pastor Hagee declared: Israel we are with you.”  He was then as today a courageous Christian, guided by an unparalleled moral compass who distinguished right from wrong, good from evil. 

    The same zeal and vision that moved Pastor Hagee in 1981 to stand in the defense of Israel,  has moved him to  strongly condemn anti-Semitism and bigotry in its forms. 

    Pastor Hagee is a world leader in his support of Israel. For he understands that Israel is the only nation of the world who faces extermination for being a Jewish nation, for being a democracy, for being America’s most trusted and loyal friend among the nations,   He understands that no other nation in the world has yearned so much, nor given so much, nor risked so much, nor suffered so much for the cause of peace, as Israel and yet has been so criticized.

    It is ironic and absurd that when Pastor was lecturing on one of the Jewish perspectives of the Holocaust that his words were twisted and used to attack him for being anti Semitic.  

    Pastor Hagee said nothing of the kind.   Pastor interpreted a Biblical verse in a way not very different from several legitimate Jewish authorities.  Viewing Hitler as acting completely outside of God’s plan is to suggest that God was powerless to stop the Holocaust, a position quite unacceptable to any religious Jew or Christian.

    No less an authority than the author of the Eim Habanim Semaichah, Rabbi Yisachar Shlomo Teichtal of blessed memory wrote these words while cowering in a Budapest cellar in the very midst of Hitler’s Holocaust: “Furthermore, the sole purpose of all the afflictions that smite us in our exile is to arouse us to return to our Holy Land.”

    I have seen Pastor's tears and Diana's tears at Yad Vashem.   They identify and feel the pain of our people, therefore I know that of all the criticisms that Pastor has been subjected to when he stepped into a political mine field, and of all the distortions of the truth that he had to contend with, this must be the most painful, because of his love for the Jewish people and his genuine total efforts to see that never again shall the Jewish people be alone in a world of apathy, hatred and anti Semitism.

    A Holocaust survivor, who lived through the death camps of Auschwitz, recently declared at the San Antonio Jewish community commemoration of Yom HaShoah:  “If during the Nazi era the world had leaders like Pastor John Hagee, 6 million Jews, among them one and a million children, wouldn’t have been brutally murdered.”

    Doc
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  • 05-27-2008 8:53 PM In reply to

    • AmeriKan
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    Re: In Defense of John Hagee

    Doc.....My family and I join with you, Pastor Hagee and all those who love and support Israel in prayer
    against the onslaught of the enemy that has attacked this most worthy cause.  Our God shall prevail in this
    "good fight of faith."  We pray a special prayer over Pastor Hagee and his family for greater strength,
    wisdom, knowledge and power to fulfill the call of God on his life and for divine protection to do more
    for the cause of Christ than ever before.
     
    Blessings,
    AmeriKan
    God is FAITHFUL!!!!!
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  • 05-27-2008 9:41 PM In reply to

    • jmac
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    Re: In Defense of John Hagee

    One way to help in CUFI's "aid to Israel" is through donations.
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  • 05-27-2008 11:15 PM In reply to

    Re: Has anyone seen the movie, "Pilgrims Progress"


    I don't get it you are defending secular humanism because you do not like NT Wright?

    So what you are saying is that you are FOR secular utopianism & the killing of the unborn?

    I don't find that controversial at since stem cell research is some pretty grisly technology.

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  • 05-28-2008 11:58 AM In reply to

    • AmeriKan
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    Re: Has anyone seen the movie, "Pilgrims Progress"

    Discerner:

    I don't get it you are defending secular humanism because you do not like NT Wright?

    So what you are saying is that you are FOR secular utopianism & the killing of the unborn?

    I don't find that controversial at since stem cell research is some pretty grisly technology.

     
    My post may have been misleading....we DO NOT endorse euthanasia..........
    Nonetheless, Wright is controversial in his views of scripture, ie., gifts of the Spirit, rapture of the church, etc.
    and those positions are not in line with the beliefs of Cfaith and its contributors.   Evangelically, he may be sound
    but his "justification by faith" position may lie out of the perimeter of orthodoxy.  Luther and Wesley were strong
    proponents of "justification by faith through grace."  
     
    Education is good but it can be one's own worst enemy because "knowledge puffeth up."  Many seminaries
    have become "cemeteries," so to speak.   The Anglican church would not recognize J. Wesley's lay ministers
    because they were not university educated but the results produced in their ministry far exceeded the results
    of the university educated preachers.  "The letter alone killeth, but the Spirit gives life."   Wesley saw it as the
    difference between what he had (lacked) and what the Moravians had that changed his life.   It is the difference
    between true spiritual hunger and just seeking knowledge for the sake of knowledge.  One produces spiritual
    life, the other produces spiritual death.   The latter is just religion.
     
     
    Blessings,
    AmeriKan  
    God is FAITHFUL!!!!!
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